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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:22 am 
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I'm currently travelling trough South America on a DR650SE from 2000 and at 65000km the clutch started slipping at full throttle in fifth gear. After reading all the forums I decided to put a washer behind the clutch springs in order to give it a bit more length but they are still in spec at 34.2mm, so with a 1 mm washer it should be sufficient right?

This didn't helped and eventually started slipping in fourth gear as well. So I decided to fly in the metal discs and friction plates from Peru as there are no parts in Bolivia. I've measured all the old plates and discs and where 2,9 - 3,0. Also in spec. The metal discs weren't burned but the plates and the discs are a bit warped.

I checked the washer and bushing behind the basket and these show some wear but nothing shocking. I filed down all the grooves in the inner basket as well. So I decided to put everything back together with the new plates, discs and the 1 mm washers behind the springs, fresh motul semi synthetic 15w50 (only motorcycle oil available here). The first test ride was horrible. It slipped in all the gears. I adjusted the cable all the way but no difference...

So I took it apart again and then I found out that the circlip had broken and was mangled between the first metal disc and friction plate and had completely stripped of the friction material. So that explained the slipping. As I don't have any other plates and don't want to pay another 250usd for shipping and import tax i decided to put the most straight and thick friction plate in there from the old clutch.

I put it in as the first friction plate (e.g. The closest to the engine) because as far as I know are the plates which are the furthest away from the engine the ones which gets the most stressed and worn out the quickest, or am I wrong here?

Anyhow confident it would be solved I put everything back together again to only found out it slips at full throttle in fifth gear again... :sad:

Does anybody has an idea what to do?

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Suzuki DR650 SE - 2000 - CB Lynx R fairing - Safari Tank - Gixxer 40F can - Keihin FCR-MX 39
Aprilia RSV Mille - 1999 - Motomagic single seat - Bos straight pipes - Fluo red rims


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:54 am 
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It's odd that you're slipping in higher gears and not the lower ones. Can you make it slip in first or second it you gas it hard?

Also, by adjust it all the way out, do you mean to the point that the clutch lever gets floppy? If the clutch lever is tight, it can make the clutch slip.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:36 pm 
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RamMan4x4 wrote:
It's odd that you're slipping in higher gears and not the lower ones. Can you make it slip in first or second it you gas it hard?

Also, by adjust it all the way out, do you mean to the point that the clutch lever gets floppy? If the clutch lever is tight, it can make the clutch slip.


+1 If the side cover was put back on with the rack gear in a different location than was original even backing off on the lever adjuster may still have the clutch too tight. What's important is that there is some play in the clutch arm on the case when the clutch is released.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:20 pm 
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^ check that first

Myself, I also made this mistake once while reassembling when I was trying to find a solution for this thread starting problem but caught it early before starting the bike again- since the whole clutch system is a bit coarsely specced a few tenths of a mm multiplied by number of plates may end up hiding such a mistake

Ingmar46 wrote:
Does anybody has an idea what to do?


in my thread experience 0.4mm in spring length made a huge slipping difference:

Image

so in your shoes, I would make sure I get the best mix&match of the metal and friction discs, double make sure I properly assemble everything in place and if slippage still exists I would give it 0.5-1mm more preload on the springs to see if I anything changes. If yes, I would replace the pressure springs. There is the possibility the metal in the pressure springs has entered some kind of metallurgical "shrink mode" after some initiating clutch overheat condition and won't be ever again elastic enough so you may find the springs even shorter than how they where when you put them back in with the 1mm extra washers - it took me a good overheat to do so but it may be a permanent material change or the thermal loads may add up over time if you have extensive slipping even if you do not enter "overheat" territory - beter metalurgy educated guys could tell If I am talking nonsense :pardon:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:51 am 
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RamMan4x4 wrote:
It's odd that you're slipping in higher gears and not the lower ones. Can you make it slip in first or second it you gas it hard?

Also, by adjust it all the way out, do you mean to the point that the clutch lever gets floppy? If the clutch lever is tight, it can make the clutch slip.


In the higher gears the clutch is subjected to more torque so I would make sense to me that is slips in the highest gear first. Anyway I slacked the clutch cable all the way while riding in fifth today and made sure there was absolutely no tension on the cable and it still slip so that's not it... thanks for thinking along though

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Travelling trough South America

Suzuki DR650 SE - 2000 - CB Lynx R fairing - Safari Tank - Gixxer 40F can - Keihin FCR-MX 39
Aprilia RSV Mille - 1999 - Motomagic single seat - Bos straight pipes - Fluo red rims


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:57 am 
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Mi_ka wrote:
^ check that first

Myself, I also made this mistake once while reassembling when I was trying to find a solution for this thread starting problem but caught it early before starting the bike again- since the whole clutch system is a bit coarsely specced a few tenths of a mm multiplied by number of plates may end up hiding such a mistake

Ingmar46 wrote:
Does anybody has an idea what to do?


in my thread experience 0.4mm in spring length made a huge slipping difference:

'Image'

so in your shoes, I would make sure I get the best mix&match of the metal and friction discs, double make sure I properly assemble everything in place and if slippage still exists I would give it 0.5-1mm more preload on the springs to see if I anything changes. If yes, I would replace the pressure springs. There is the possibility the metal in the pressure springs has entered some kind of metallurgical "shrink mode" after some initiating clutch overheat condition and won't be ever again elastic enough so you may find the springs even shorter than how they where when you put them back in with the 1mm extra washers - it took me a good overheat to do so but it may be a permanent material change or the thermal loads may add up over time if you have extensive slipping even if you do not enter "overheat" territory - beter metalurgy educated guys could tell If I am talking nonsense :pardon:


To change the physical conditions of steel you'll probably need at least 500 or 600 degrees Celsius. I can't image the clutch becoming that hot... I'll try to get some new springs and post the outcome

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Travelling trough South America

Suzuki DR650 SE - 2000 - CB Lynx R fairing - Safari Tank - Gixxer 40F can - Keihin FCR-MX 39
Aprilia RSV Mille - 1999 - Motomagic single seat - Bos straight pipes - Fluo red rims


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:34 am 
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Ingmar46 wrote:
In the higher gears the clutch is subjected to more torque so I would make sense to me that is slips in the highest gear first. Anyway I slacked the clutch cable all the way while riding in fifth today and made sure there was absolutely no tension on the cable and it still slip so that's not it... thanks for thinking along though


The clutch should never see more torque than what the engine can create...regardless of gear selection. The exception of course is very brief spike loads due to inertia, firing pulses, etc.. The transmission output shaft (i.e. counter shaft) has higher torque at lower gears (i.e. 1st, 2nd) and lower torque at higher gears (i.e. 4th, 5th). It's all a function of the gear ratio...I recall 4th being 1:1 and 5th being less than 1. But the transmission input shaft (connected to clutch) should always be equal to the engine torque multiplied by the primary gear reduction ratio.

My comment was based on the assumption that you can put higher spike loads through the clutch in lower gears. Though, it probably is easier to achieve a higher steady state torque on the engine/clutch in higher gears.

Regardless, all of your parts sound like they are in spec so it still seems unlikely that it's a clutch parts issue.

Have you checked your countershaft and rear wheel sprocket? It's a long shot, but I have seen someone complain about "clutch slipping" in high gears before and it turned out to be that all the teeth on the countershaft sprocket were completely worn down and rounded.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:57 am 
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I don't know the physics behind it, but from past experiences in the motorcycle and automotive world.
A weak or worn clutch will slip in higher gears first.
I can only guess the reason is the higher gears offer more resistance.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Ingmar46 wrote:
To change the physical conditions of steel you'll probably need at least 500 or 600 degrees Celsius.

for sure but this goes for proper quality steel - remember, this is Suzuki and not Honda

when I fried my clutch my boot plastic outside liner had started to melt as it rubbed against the clutch cover - my springs lost 1.3mm of length in just a short overheating episode in that very short uphill trail

Ingmar46 wrote:
I can't image the clutch becoming that hot...

there could be accumulated thermal fatigue or so

Ingmar46 wrote:
I'll try to get some new springs and post the outcome

I would give it an extra mm of preload and see if it gets better - this should make a difference if the slippage is mainly spring tension related - if yes, then I'd change springs with barnett ones or so, if nothing changes then the culprit is elsewhere (mismatched warpage of metal discs?)

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