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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:14 am 
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SuperMoto Dude
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dhardesthard wrote:
I am getting 350*F at 70 MPH(5000 RPM) with an ambient of 86*F and the plugs show a light tan. Unfortunately no one with authority has stated a "do not exceed" temperature for CHT. The only comments are "that's fine" or "not a problem", no definite "red line values".

That's because nobody has burned one up or even reported any damaged to their DR650 by overheating it. The actual point of danger is still unknown.

That said, I back off when I see over 380 on my Vapor. Not because I think that is the magic number but because that's how hot it's been those times when I knew I was mistreating it.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:29 am 
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SuperMoto Dude
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ProCycle wrote:
dhardesthard wrote:
I am getting 350*F at 70 MPH(5000 RPM) with an ambient of 86*F and the plugs show a light tan. Unfortunately no one with authority has stated a "do not exceed" temperature for CHT. The only comments are "that's fine" or "not a problem", no definite "red line values".

That's because nobody has burned one up or even reported any damaged to their DR650 by overheating it. The actual point of danger is still unknown.

That said, I back off when I see over 380 on my Vapor. Not because I think that is the magic number but because that's how hot it's been those times when I knew I was mistreating it.


Can you remember under what conditions you saw "over 380*F ? How did you know that you were "mistreating it" ?

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:56 am 
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Adventure Rider
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@Procycle, where did you mount your temp sensor?

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:40 am 
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SuperMoto Dude
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dhardesthard wrote:
ProCycle wrote:
dhardesthard wrote:
I am getting 350*F at 70 MPH(5000 RPM) with an ambient of 86*F and the plugs show a light tan. Unfortunately no one with authority has stated a "do not exceed" temperature for CHT. The only comments are "that's fine" or "not a problem", no definite "red line values".

That's because nobody has burned one up or even reported any damaged to their DR650 by overheating it. The actual point of danger is still unknown.

That said, I back off when I see over 380 on my Vapor. Not because I think that is the magic number but because that's how hot it's been those times when I knew I was mistreating it.


Can you remember under what conditions you saw "over 380*F ? How did you know that you were "mistreating it" ?

Dogpaddling uphill through deep snow for a couple hundred yards. I was abusing the clutch and spinning the tire and making very slow progress. But what I was doing shouldn't matter to you. Just watch your temperatures for a while in all conditions and you will soon get an idea of what temps are within the normal operating range. Once you know what is normal for your riding conditions then you need only be concerned when the temperature goes significantly beyond that.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:45 am 
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malokam wrote:
@Procycle, where did you mount your temp sensor?

Under the spark plug.

IMO that's the best place for accurate temperature measurement on an air cooled motor. If I could get the temperature of the piston crown instead that would be even better.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:57 am 
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ProCycle wrote:
malokam wrote:
@Procycle, where did you mount your temp sensor?

Under the spark plug.

IMO that's the best place for accurate temperature measurement on an air cooled motor. If I could get the temperature of the piston crown instead that would be even better.


Okay, thanks. Thats where I put mine after reading a bunch of threads.
was just making sure..

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Just watch your temperatures for a while in all conditions and you will soon get an idea of what temps are within the normal operating range. Once you know what is normal for your riding conditions then you need only be concerned when the temperature goes significantly beyond that.[/quote]

I have been unable to establish a normal because when I see the temperatures climbing past 365 I back off fearing that I may be approaching too high a temperature. That is why I am trying to find someone who can definitely say that an over heating problem occurred at a certain temp just as a ballpark figure. I just don't want to be the one who discovers that limit. I was hoping someone who does dyno runs would be able to suggest a caution range of temperatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:47 am 
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dhardesthard wrote:
I have been unable to establish a normal because when I see the temperatures climbing past 365 I back off fearing that I may be approaching too high a temperature. That is why I am trying to find someone who can definitely say that an over heating problem occurred at a certain temp just as a ballpark figure. I just don't want to be the one who discovers that limit. I was hoping someone who does dyno runs would be able to suggest a caution range of temperatures.

When I do dyno runs I try to have the motor over 330 degrees before starting the run. It's actually not all that easy to keep the temperature up because the DR650 is so effective at shedding heat.

The Vapor temp gauge only goes up to 399 degrees. If your Vapor is reading 399 you don't know if it's really 399 or 475 or 592. Given that limitation I'd say try not to let it go over 398 for more than a few minutes at a time and you'll be just fine.

Years ago a shop I worked at had an analog cylinder head temperature gauge that we put on an old XL600. You could easily see 500-600 degrees on that bike just riding around normally. Those XL600s did not shed heat well at all. They ran hot and paid the price in engine life. There were a bunch of college students that used their XL600s to commute to the local community college that was about 25 miles from town. The XL600s that did all that freeway commuting would last about 15,000 miles. At that point they would get hard to start and come in to the shop for a 'tune up'. We would do a leak down test, find only about 20% valve sealing and when the motor was torn down we would find valve seats that were no longer round, extremely worn valves and cracked heads. All consistent with too much heat. XL250s used the same way would only go about 8,000 miles.

We don't see or hear about any heat related problems with the DR650. Even with thousands of them running around without temperature gauges ridden by folks who never even think about the engine temperature.

Most motors will get some discoloration on the underside of the piston from the oil film cooking onto the hot spots. Even mildly run motors will usually have a dark brown area under the center of the piston crown. All the old DR650 pistons I have collected here at ProCycle are still the gray color of bare aluminum on the bottom. Even pistons out of motors that have been personally thrashed on by me. Suzuki made a great design that gets the heat out of the piston and away from the motor.

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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:22 am 
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Great post, thanks. I like the idea of simply not going over 398 on the vapor for long! :drinks:


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 Post subject: Re: Cylinder head temperatures on the DR.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:27 am 
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Hard to tell from this pic but I was in the upper 300% range trying to get up this nasty four wheel rocky road,yea lots of dog paddeling
Image

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