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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:06 pm 
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SuperMoto Dude
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:36 am
Posts: 301
Location: Sydney, Australia
my new to me DR came rather poorly jettted with a dynojet kit. i've got it going well now, but i am missing the plastic spacer that sits on the needle. i want to get that, and file it down so it clears the D-shelf. I'm unsure about which part it is in the parts diagram.

is it #20?

Image

_________________
Yamaha FJR 1300, 2001 model for road touring, Suzuki DR650SE 2006 model for dirt touring.
----------
DJ160 main jet, dynojet needle on richest clip, KTM 640 LC4 X-6 emulsion tube, pilot screw 1-1/4 turns out, all in the BST40. Airbox cut to the usual template.
IMS tank, procircuit T4 muffler, TAG 1-1/8" bars, backbusters, madstad 18" screen, MJM custom seat.
Lots of other cool stuff.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:41 pm 
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Adventure Rider
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Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 1017
Location: South Australia
Number 20 is the stepped/shouldered spacer that goes in the spring.
22 is the spacer that goes on the needle under the clip.
This pick shows #20 in the spring and #22 on the needle.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/ ... Copy-M.jpg

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2009 DR650SE. IMS tank, Renthal Fatbar, lowered pegs, Hindle pipe and 35F, saddlebag frames, BST Magic mods, open air box, heavier springs front and rear, windscreen, mini indicators


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:48 pm 
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SuperMoto Dude
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Posts: 301
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wotavidone wrote:
Number 20 is the stepped/shouldered spacer that goes in the spring.
22 is the spacer that goes on the needle under the clip.
This pick shows #20 in the spring and #22 on the needle.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/ ... Copy-M.jpg


thanks mate. #22 is what im after :good:

_________________
Yamaha FJR 1300, 2001 model for road touring, Suzuki DR650SE 2006 model for dirt touring.
----------
DJ160 main jet, dynojet needle on richest clip, KTM 640 LC4 X-6 emulsion tube, pilot screw 1-1/4 turns out, all in the BST40. Airbox cut to the usual template.
IMS tank, procircuit T4 muffler, TAG 1-1/8" bars, backbusters, madstad 18" screen, MJM custom seat.
Lots of other cool stuff.


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:42 pm 
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Trail Rider
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:24 pm
Posts: 114
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dmsantam wrote:
my new to me DR came rather poorly jettted with a dynojet kit. i've got it going well now, but i am missing the plastic spacer that sits on the needle.i want to get that, and file it down so it clears the D-shelf.
The Dynojet jet needle's drawbacks are:

1) It was designed for the '80-'83 Yamaha XS & XJ1100 and/or the '80-'85 Suzuki GS750E & ES.

2) It has a shape that is likely to produce significant variances in mixture strength through the rpm range, specifically leaner toward upper portion of the rpm range than toward the lower.

3) It's made out of stainless steel which means more emulsion tube wear than with an aluminum needle.

4) It doesn't use the white plastic spacer under the clip, which means the needle is not preloaded in the downstream direction, and will therefore be more prone to orbiting/otherwise gyrating inside the emulsion tube. It also means that the needle will not be able to pivot out of the way as the slide guide wears. Both of these factors equate more emulsion tube wear. Note: studying Dynojet needle applications reveals that they keep OEM spacers in place unless, as in this case, the needle is adapted from a use on a different carburetor.

Regards,

Derek


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:56 pm 
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SuperMoto Dude
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motolab wrote:
dmsantam wrote:
my new to me DR came rather poorly jettted with a dynojet kit. i've got it going well now, but i am missing the plastic spacer that sits on the needle.i want to get that, and file it down so it clears the D-shelf.
The Dynojet jet needle's drawbacks are:

1) It was designed for the '80-'83 Yamaha XS & XJ1100 and/or the '80-'85 Suzuki GS750E & ES.

2) It has a shape that is likely to produce significant variances in mixture strength through the rpm range, specifically leaner toward upper portion of the rpm range than toward the lower.

3) It's made out of stainless steel which means more emulsion tube wear than with an aluminum needle.

4) It doesn't use the white plastic spacer under the clip, which means the needle is not preloaded in the downstream direction, and will therefore be more prone to orbiting/otherwise gyrating inside the emulsion tube. It also means that the needle will not be able to pivot out of the way as the slide guide wears. Both of these factors equate more emulsion tube wear. Note: studying Dynojet needle applications reveals that they keep OEM spacers in place unless, as in this case, the needle is adapted from a use on a different carburetor.

Regards,

Derek


by filing down the plastic spacer to clear the D-shelf, i've removed drawback #4.

i agree with your point on emulsion tube wear - but it's a replaceable part.

what is a better alternative needle?

_________________
Yamaha FJR 1300, 2001 model for road touring, Suzuki DR650SE 2006 model for dirt touring.
----------
DJ160 main jet, dynojet needle on richest clip, KTM 640 LC4 X-6 emulsion tube, pilot screw 1-1/4 turns out, all in the BST40. Airbox cut to the usual template.
IMS tank, procircuit T4 muffler, TAG 1-1/8" bars, backbusters, madstad 18" screen, MJM custom seat.
Lots of other cool stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:04 am 
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Trail Rider
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dmsantam wrote:
by filing down the plastic spacer to clear the D-shelf, i've removed drawback #4.
How do you figure?
Quote:

i agree with your point on emulsion tube wear - but it's a replaceable part.

what is a better alternative needle?
The non-USA OEM 6F19 needle (13383-32E00).

Regards,

Derek


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:06 am 
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SuperMoto Dude
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motolab wrote:
dmsantam wrote:
by filing down the plastic spacer to clear the D-shelf, i've removed drawback #4.
How do you figure?
Quote:

i agree with your point on emulsion tube wear - but it's a replaceable part.

what is a better alternative needle?
The non-USA OEM 6F19 needle (13383-32E00).

Regards,

Derek


I have one of those.. but isn't the taper not going to work with an open airbox? i've been considering grinding it down, as per the BST Magic thread.

_________________
Yamaha FJR 1300, 2001 model for road touring, Suzuki DR650SE 2006 model for dirt touring.
----------
DJ160 main jet, dynojet needle on richest clip, KTM 640 LC4 X-6 emulsion tube, pilot screw 1-1/4 turns out, all in the BST40. Airbox cut to the usual template.
IMS tank, procircuit T4 muffler, TAG 1-1/8" bars, backbusters, madstad 18" screen, MJM custom seat.
Lots of other cool stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:21 am 
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Trail Rider
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 7:24 pm
Posts: 114
Location: The inhabitants refer to it as the planet "Earth".
dmsantam wrote:
I have one of those.. but isn't the taper not going to work with an open airbox?
The 6F19 jet needle is outstanding with a cut airbox. These are the runs from the Zebra's (http://www.wolfandzebra.com/) bike (the wolf's bike was set up the same way):

WOT: http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=456
1/4 opening: http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=457
1/8 opening: http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=458
Quote:
i've been considering grinding it down, as per the BST Magic thread.
I'd recommend against that as the idea is based on a misunderstanding of what needle taper does on a CV carburetor vs. what is needed when the airbox is opened (and in general)(we can discuss the details if you like).

Regards,

Derek


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:31 am 
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SuperMoto Dude
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:36 am
Posts: 301
Location: Sydney, Australia
motolab wrote:
dmsantam wrote:
I have one of those.. but isn't the taper not going to work with an open airbox?
The 6F19 jet needle is outstanding with a cut airbox. These are the runs from the Zebra's (http://www.wolfandzebra.com/) bike (the wolf's bike was set up the same way):

WOT: http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=456
1/4 opening: http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=457
1/8 opening: http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=458
Quote:
i've been considering grinding it down, as per the BST Magic thread.
I'd recommend against that as the idea is based on a misunderstanding of what needle taper does on a CV carburetor vs. what is needed when the airbox is opened (and in general)(we can discuss the details if you like).

Regards,

Derek


i'll give that a go then. i have the jetting pretty much perfect (according to my arse dyno) with the dynojet needle on the 2nd clip, DJ160 main, and mikuni stock 42.5 pilot, screw 1 and 1/4 turns out.

i'll pop in the stock aussie needle i have on the same clip and see how i go. then i'll richen it up if it's too lean by raising the needle until it stops surging.

any other suggestions? i appreciate your advice.

cheers

_________________
Yamaha FJR 1300, 2001 model for road touring, Suzuki DR650SE 2006 model for dirt touring.
----------
DJ160 main jet, dynojet needle on richest clip, KTM 640 LC4 X-6 emulsion tube, pilot screw 1-1/4 turns out, all in the BST40. Airbox cut to the usual template.
IMS tank, procircuit T4 muffler, TAG 1-1/8" bars, backbusters, madstad 18" screen, MJM custom seat.
Lots of other cool stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:24 pm 
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SuperMoto Dude
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:36 am
Posts: 301
Location: Sydney, Australia
i did some searching on this site, and found some of your previous recommendations (topic17374-30.html?sid=4ebf9347c0b9e3b65c525e9ed04192f4#p195523)

6F19 needle on the 4th clip, float height 14.7mm, and the usual pilot screw adjustment procedure.

What main jet do you recommend as a starting point? I am at sea level, in Australia.

Given the very different taper of the 6F19 needle, i take it that the main jet will have to be richer than what is working with my more aggressively tapered dynojet needle. I'm running a DJ160 (mikuni 150) main with the dynojet needle. Should i try a DJ170 (mikuni 160) main with 6F19 needle to start with?

I see that the wolf and zebra are using a mikuni 155, so i will start with that. http://www.wolfandzebra.com/tuning-the- ... t-motolab/

_________________
Yamaha FJR 1300, 2001 model for road touring, Suzuki DR650SE 2006 model for dirt touring.
----------
DJ160 main jet, dynojet needle on richest clip, KTM 640 LC4 X-6 emulsion tube, pilot screw 1-1/4 turns out, all in the BST40. Airbox cut to the usual template.
IMS tank, procircuit T4 muffler, TAG 1-1/8" bars, backbusters, madstad 18" screen, MJM custom seat.
Lots of other cool stuff.


Last edited by dmsantam on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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