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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:46 pm 
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Whereas:

- Vancouver Supermoto sells Goldspeed tires ("Goldies") (at the ridiculous price of about a grand for a pair), stating that 120/80 is the proper, standard, front tire size http://www.vancouversupermoto.com/page.php?id=38
- There is a loss of trail when going from dirtbike setups to the supermoto 17" front/rear, and supposedly KTM and Honda (?) set their racers up with triple trees that have reduced offset (20mm stock, 11mm supermoto, or something like that, does anybody have a link for this? Parallel thread, not the one I read http://supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?71338-Triple-Clamp-Offset
- Low profile sportbike tires, even a 120/70, do not seem appropriate for a bike with 10" of travel in terms of impact capability;
- Going from our stock wheel setup to the typical 17" supermoto setup will result in a net difference of about a 1" chassis drop in the front (about 2.5" in the front and about 1.5" in the rear);

What is your experience regarding:
- First, whether the concerns above have any real bearing regarding the road-worthiness of our DR's in supermoto trim;
- Secondly, whether the use of higher profile tires - 120/80 or 120/90 or otherwise - mitigates these concerns and/or brings additional benefits/drawbacks.

I've been chatting with Locknut, and he's given me excellent advice, but I'm curious to know if others have also tried higher profile tires and what their experiences may be.

Please note, I have a 17" supermoto setup yet to be mounted; going to a 19" front is not an option for me. Going to a 2.5" rim that will give the best platform for a 120/90-17 front is a future possibility, but I'd rather hear opinions regarding standard 17" setup.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:43 pm 
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Just my opinion but I have never liked the feel of a 120 rear tire mounted on the front. Rear tires tend to have a flat/round profile that doesn't turn in like a proper front tire. Putting a 120/80 on a 3.5x17 supermoto rim will make the profile and steering even worse.

Lots of guys have normal 120/70-17 front tire on their DR650 supermotos and love it. Also, there are much better tires available in the 120/70 size.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:57 pm 
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While I have not run ( or seen) one, I think the 120/80 would be good but the DR works well with a 120/70 which makes tire selection less a problem. Are you using the bike on the track?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:53 pm 
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Nc Rick, no, not using on the track. This will purely be for road use, albeit many of the roads here in the Bay Area are pretty crappy quality.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:01 pm 
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I have a 2.5 x17" rim on the front and tried a 120/17 knobby front tire and didn't care for it.I ride a lot of hwy. and gravel logging roads.I lowered the rear cogent shock 3/4" and lowering links as well in the rear and also lowered the front suspension too.I now run Kenda K270 5.10x17s front and back.The front is really too wide for the forks,it slightly rubs on the edges.Now I played around with air pressure quite a bit to get the right feel and performance I was after.
As to what it feels like riding this setup for those that are interested I will try to compare it to what we know stock is.First you will notice the steering is slower and a bit heavy.Grooves and wheel ruts and irregularities on the road surface seem barely noticeable.There is a more pronounced gyroscopic feel from the heavier tire and wheel up front and when banking over for curves it feels like I am on rails.No correction is needed.Potholes and choppy corrigation is soaked up by the fat tire and all that volume of air and the tuned suspension.Braking is good as I can get those tires to howl when hard on the brakes.These tires are perfect for me,they last a long time,are good in the rain,handle just fine on pavement and gravel,are 6 ply.One thing they do is fling lots of mud but in the soft sand they don't cut so deep and sit more on the surface when just chugging along.I really like the solid planted feel and balance of the bike and love that cat squasher front end.The Harley riders wave to me more now from a distance then think WTF.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:23 pm 
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Cat Squasher, FTW :lol:

Great post, thank you very much!

What pressures do you run?

And, how much did your lowering links reduce in addition to the 3/4" from the Cogent?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:51 pm 
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wheelz wrote:
Whereas:

- Vancouver Supermoto sells Goldspeed tires ("Goldies") (at the ridiculous price of about a grand for a pair), stating that 120/80 is the proper, standard, front tire size http://www.vancouversupermoto.com/page.php?id=38
- There is a loss of trail when going from dirtbike setups to the supermoto 17" front/rear, and supposedly KTM and Honda (?) set their racers up with triple trees that have reduced offset (20mm stock, 11mm supermoto, or something like that, does anybody have a link for this? Parallel thread, not the one I read http://supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?71338-Triple-Clamp-Offset
- Low profile sportbike tires, even a 120/70, do not seem appropriate for a bike with 10" of travel in terms of impact capability;
- Going from our stock wheel setup to the typical 17" supermoto setup will result in a net difference of about a 1" chassis drop in the front (about 2.5" in the front and about 1.5" in the rear);

What is your experience regarding:
- First, whether the concerns above have any real bearing regarding the road-worthiness of our DR's in supermoto trim;
- Secondly, whether the use of higher profile tires - 120/80 or 120/90 or otherwise - mitigates these concerns and/or brings additional benefits/drawbacks.

I've been chatting with Locknut, and he's given me excellent advice, but I'm curious to know if others have also tried higher profile tires and what their experiences may be.

Please note, I have a 17" supermoto setup yet to be mounted; going to a 19" front is not an option for me. Going to a 2.5" rim that will give the best platform for a 120/90-17 front is a future possibility, but I'd rather hear opinions regarding standard 17" setup.


-No experience with Vancouver supermoto or Goldies but there is no "right" tire for anything. You're working on a system which has a number of adjustable or changeable components in an effort to achieve a certain effect. There is no 1 size fits all tire that will work great on all bikes, it's going to be specific to your setup. What works for them on a CRF or whatever they're running doesn't really have anything to do with your setup since just about everything suspension wise between the their bikes and yours will probably be different. Race motards were and still are running 16.5" front rims most of the time. It just all depends on your particular setup. My advice would be to start with a common tire size with a tire that is known to be good on motards, there are quite a few motard specifics but lots of people like Dunlop Q3's, Pilot Powers, Metzler M7RR etc etc. You basically want to set the bike up for where you're going to be riding, as in if you're riding on Kart tracks where you never get above 60mph then you can set up the front incredibly aggressive and worry less about getting instability at high speed whereas if you're regularly hitting 90 you're going to want to adjust your front end for more stability to eliminate wobbling. Tire choice and height is just one aspect of this equation which you can modify to achieve a desired result.

-You can pretty much forget about altering your offset as nobody makes clamps for the DR anyways so unless you're going to swap your front-end don't even bother wondering about offset modification.

-As long as you're running spoke wheels you're running tubes anyways, a sportbike tire jumps just fine, In fact having 10" of travel is actually much easier on the tire than if you had say 5 or 6" on a streetbike. You will obviously have much less roll-over capability with a 17" wheel versus a 21" just because of it's diameter.

-How much swapping to 17's changes your bikes geometry is really very much relative to your particular bike. You should measure your own items, your sag, etc. to get a clear picture of what you're changing and by how much.

it's all relative to how you ride and what you want to do. There isn't going to be a band-aid solution like the perfect tire that can be handed to you, especially on the DR which isn't a super popular motard so information from trial and error is slim. Measure and experiment is your best avenue for success if you're after something very specific from your bike.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Thanks for the great input, Max!

I understand your point about no one "right" tire, but at the same time many generalizations can be drawn such that judgments regarding "right" and "wrong" or "suitable" and "unsuitable" can be made. Motocross bikes universally use 21" front wheels. Flat trackers use 19" front and rear. Supermotos use 17" front and rear, and yes some (some) use 16.5" front (of the Goldies VSM sells only one is 16.5", a front slick, whereas all the others are 17"). And, our DR's, geometry-wise might be more similar to most "supermoto" bikes than typical street bikes that use the standard 17 x 3.5 front wheel.

Keep in mind, I'm not asking what the right tire is. I just don't want to go the "me, too!" route of just doing the standard 120/70 front supermoto tire thing, when I'm learning that others are using quite different 17" front tires that have characteristics that appeal to me.

I do like your points about how many supermoto races might have conditions that are a bit different than for someone, who might do highway riding. And, I didn't consider the idea that our suspension will give a benefit running a typical 120/70 tire compared to most street bikes.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:52 am 
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wheelz wrote:
Cat Squasher, FTW :lol:

Great post, thank you very much!

What pressures do you run?

And, how much did your lowering links reduce in addition to the 3/4" from the Cogent?


I am running 28 psi front and back.Feels best to me.I measured with unladen bike upright and the skid plate is 8 1/2" off the floor.
Your rims,tires and use will likely differ from mine so you will have to experiment with your suspension setup and pressures.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:21 pm 
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@ wheelz: especially with tires, it's not a lifelong relationship. Buy and try I'd say.

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