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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:40 pm 
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wheelz wrote:
Thanks for the great input, Max!

I understand your point about no one "right" tire, but at the same time many generalizations can be drawn such that judgments regarding "right" and "wrong" or "suitable" and "unsuitable" can be made. Motocross bikes universally use 21" front wheels. Flat trackers use 19" front and rear. Supermotos use 17" front and rear, and yes some (some) use 16.5" front (of the Goldies VSM sells only one is 16.5", a front slick, whereas all the others are 17"). And, our DR's, geometry-wise might be more similar to most "supermoto" bikes than typical street bikes that use the standard 17 x 3.5 front wheel.

Keep in mind, I'm not asking what the right tire is. I just don't want to go the "me, too!" route of just doing the standard 120/70 front supermoto tire thing, when I'm learning that others are using quite different 17" front tires that have characteristics that appeal to me.

I do like your points about how many supermoto races might have conditions that are a bit different than for someone, who might do highway riding. And, I didn't consider the idea that our suspension will give a benefit running a typical 120/70 tire compared to most street bikes.



I guess my point is, there are no real "generalizations" unless you're just the guy who wants whatever works okay and you're never gonna mess with anything. You seem like you're asking the more specific question of, I want to make a specific change and how do I make my bike do XYZ. Motocross bikes only use 21 front tires NOW and that's just because of market tire selection/where the big 4 pushed everything, it's been anywhere from 18 to 23" if you just go back a few more years and the same can be said with flat trackers or supermoto stuff.

Max Kool wrote:
@ wheelz: especially with tires, it's not a lifelong relationship. Buy and try I'd say.


Exactly. If you want to achieve something specific, buy 3 tires of varying heights and experiment. Knowing and understanding the relationship of the components of the front end means that you can do some of this experimentation on the drawing board instead of with your wallet initially. As in, maybe instead of offset triple clamps you buy axle clamps with less offset and achieve the same effect or perhaps you're eyeballing a taller tire but you could actually just raise the front end on your specific machine.

The most general honest answer that I can give is that 99% of us on a properly sprung front fork that's not set up too aggressively with even a mediocre 120/whatever won't be able to outride the tires on the street. The DR is much more Timex than Rolex. But do experiment, I don't think I'd buy a $500 tire no matter what it did but everyone's got their thing :2_thumbsup:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:10 pm 
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Max wrote:
...I don't think I'd buy a $500 tire no matter what...

Unless it was 1671.4 grams lighter than anything else..... :s_laughat

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:58 pm 
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Max, I appreciate how you talk about the big 4 setting/pushing the standard.

I'm the kind of guy who is very into stepping outside the boundaries. I'm a proponent of Darksiding (not for our bikes, of course, lol, but we should never discount that somewhere there is some person who has this setup on his/her DR), which of course is a highly controversial subject. On my car I have blocked out my rear windows and only use my side mirrors, aided by blind-spot stick-on mirrors (no different than any delivery or hauling truck). On my mountain bike I am using trials handlebars, because 99% of the manufacturers refuse to offer anything other than the "me, too!" 9-5 bend. And so forth.

So, when I see something outside the norm, I ask what benefits are present and what the deficiencies are compared to the norm.

I'm thinking that most people using supermoto setups for street use would probably be better served using cat squasher setups.

I appreciate what you say about our bikes being Timex instead of Rolex (although I was thinking of blinging out my bike by supergluing fake diamonds all over it). For some people it might seem that I'm over-analyzing, it's just that there are only a few typical setups for our bikes - stock, supermoto, 19" front - and I'm thinking I want to go the fourth way - Cat Squasher - which would greatly change my current path of already having gotten a supermoto setup.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:03 pm 
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ProCycle wrote:
Max wrote:
...I don't think I'd buy a $500 tire no matter what...

Unless it was 1671.4 grams lighter than anything else..... :s_laughat


And you'd be cursing that reduction of almost 4 lbs. next time you run over a cat, too....


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:08 pm 
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ProCycle wrote:
Max wrote:
...I don't think I'd buy a $500 tire no matter what...

Unless it was 1671.4 grams lighter than anything else..... :s_laughat



Haha! so true. If anyone is curious the 120 M7RR fronts are only 4040 grams....

wheelz wrote:
Max, I appreciate how you talk about the big 4 setting/pushing the standard.

I'm the kind of guy who is very into stepping outside the boundaries. I'm a proponent of Darksiding (not for our bikes, of course, lol, but we should never discount that somewhere there is some person who has this setup on his/her DR), which of course is a highly controversial subject. On my car I have blocked out my rear windows and only use my side mirrors, aided by blind-spot stick-on mirrors (no different than any delivery or hauling truck). On my mountain bike I am using trials handlebars, because 99% of the manufacturers refuse to offer anything other than the "me, too!" 9-5 bend. And so forth.

So, when I see something outside the norm, I ask what benefits are present and what the deficiencies are compared to the norm.

I'm thinking that most people using supermoto setups for street use would probably be better served using cat squasher setups.

I appreciate what you say about our bikes being Timex instead of Rolex (although I was thinking of blinging out my bike by supergluing fake diamonds all over it). For some people it might seem that I'm over-analyzing, it's just that there are only a few typical setups for our bikes - stock, supermoto, 19" front - and I'm thinking I want to go the fourth way - Cat Squasher - which would greatly change my current path of already having gotten a supermoto setup.


I hear you, I agree that there's no reason to do what's done just to do it. I guess my perspective is that the foundation of the answer to your question is in you personally experimenting. Buy them, measure everything, ride it, and tell us what you find :biggrin:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:20 pm 
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Yes, but in the meantime I'd like to hear perspectives from those, who either are running Cat Squasher or other non-typical setups and those, who have run supermoto setups, and how their experiences correlate with my initial post.

So far Xlcc is the only one who's replied with any experience regarding his setup. And Procycle Jeff, who pointed out the profile of rear tires on the front can be less than ideal.

Surely we have people, here, who can chime in with comments, such as:
"Yes, I went supermoto, and it's twitchy at highway speed...."
"Yes, I went Cat Squasher, and it steers too slow, now...."
"I hit potholes routinely with my supermoto setup, no problems...."

And so forth.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:46 pm 
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In a past configuration I ran my DR as a supermoto with a 120/70. Worked fine. It wasn't twitchy at all in spite of only having about 80mm of trail. It made me wonder why Suzuki made a 400 SM model instead of using the 650. IMO the 650 makes a better supermoto than the DRZ400SM.

I also experimented with a couple of different 5.10-17 (rear) dualsport tires on the front - looking for a best of both worlds setup. I could only get the handling dialed in by running very exact (and kinda unusual) air pressure in the tires. Following down this path I finally ended up with what we now call "Adventure Wheels" - a 2.5x19 paired with a 4.25x17. This combo handles well and feels more planted and stable than either the stock sizes or supermoto sizes.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:30 pm 
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Jeff, do mind elaborating on what kind of 5.10 rear tire you had on the front, and what kind of unusual pressures you were running?

Thanks for relaying your experience. I know you're a proponent of the adventure setup. It makes a lot of sense, and after I had gotten my supermoto setup I had misgivings about not having gone that route.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:23 am 
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It is important to experiment with tire pressures front and rear no matter which tires you are running for YOUR setup if you want to obtain optimum handling.Different width rim sizes make a big difference on the tire profile that meets the road surface and the type of tire used.Tires don't last long compared to rims so choose a rim width that you can live with and go through the tires until you can find what you prefer.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:22 am 
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wheelz wrote:
Jeff, do mind elaborating on what kind of 5.10 rear tire you had on the front, and what kind of unusual pressures you were running?
Maxxis 6006 "Cat Squasher XL"

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