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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:21 pm 
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MSF Student
MSF Student

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:56 am
Posts: 27
Location: California
drummerboy7816 wrote:
Mine did have the threaded holes, that's why I tried to unscrew it. I think I know what happened, the vice grips prob grabbed on the that little black ring at the end which is not part of the cap. :fool:


Successful removal second try :s_biggrin Didn't really notice much difference beside warms up faster it seems as others have mentioned. Not sure about increased throttle response, but I already have TM40 so maybe that's why..

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2014 DR650: Cogent DDCs & springs (.47), Cogent Mojave shocks (7.6), Seat Concept low seat, TM40, Acerbis 5.3 tank, Procycle full rack system with quick release, Pro Taper Contour Handlebars: Woods High Bend, Moose Racing Skid Plate, Mini 12V turn signals, Doubletake Mirrors, Chromoly Wide Footpegs, 3800 Lumen LED headlights, Shinko 804/805.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:35 pm 
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SuperMoto Dude
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:15 pm
Posts: 474
Location: Los Angeles
If the E3's had even the slightest advantage over other plugs you would see every race vehicle wearing an "E3" sticker (remember splitfire plugs?). The spark will only jump to 1 electrode at a time meanwhile the other 2 are shrouding the spark.

2-stroke engines can really separate the boys from the men with regard to plug performance. I got twice the service life running fine wire plugs than I did on conventional plugs.

Never seen any plug increase hp over another plug. Hotter ignition don't make more hp from my experience. A hotter spark does improve throttle response and makes the engine a little more "crisps" over a weak ignition ............... case in point: Yamaha RD's which had the worst coils in the industry. Back in the day we use to replace them with automotive coils and the plugs lasted 2 days instead of 1.

Iridium plugs are what I run.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Adventure Rider
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 3200
Location: California
Plus One on Iridium plugs. I like Denso over NGK. (Denso more money)

If you have any doubt ... just look at which plugs so many HIGH END cars come with from the factory. Many use Iridium and don't need service for 60,000 miles. That is all I need to hear. My current plugs are approaching 10K miles ... still fine.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Adventure Rider
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:43 pm
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Location: Eastern Ontario,east of Belleville,Canada
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The "Iridiums" in my Honda Pilot have been in there for the last 110 000 kms without affecting performance negatively . --- My DR still runs with the OEM-plugs (at ~ 20 000 kms) . --- In both cases over-all-PERFORMANCE is still satisfactory . --- It baffles me that some citizen NEEDED to replace them already while they were actually "HALF-NEW" . --- Wrong carburetor-setting ??? :s_dunno

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:54 am 
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Single Tracker
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:05 pm
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Location: Albany, West Oz
Not in any way wishing to be a smart-arse - genuine question:
Why do all piston engined aircraft engines use multi electrode plugs? I flew Dakotas (P&W R1830) for a few years and Caribous for quite a few years more (P&W R2000) but the question never arose. All other aircraft piston engines I've ever seen use multi-electrode plugs too.

Also, but unrelated: There are iridium plugs and there are platinum plugs. Is there any real-world difference?

My car still has its original platinum plugs at 193,000Km and they're doing just fine. I looked at them at about 125,000Km and they were so good I just put 'em back in.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Adventure Rider
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:10 pm
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Location: NorCal
Dinsdale wrote:
Not in any way wishing to be a smart-arse - genuine question:
Why do all piston engined aircraft engines use multi electrode plugs? I flew Dakotas (P&W R1830) for a few years and Caribous for quite a few years more (P&W R2000) but the question never arose. All other aircraft piston engines I've ever seen use multi-electrode plugs too.

Also, but unrelated: There are iridium plugs and there are platinum plugs. Is there any real-world difference?

My car still has its original platinum plugs at 193,000Km and they're doing just fine. I looked at them at about 125,000Km and they were so good I just put 'em back in.


You've requested Pandora's Box be opened for a peek. :OMG:

Dunno about the aircraft plugs tho. . . .still a LOT of variety in aircraft: Fine wire & large multi ground. It's still a debate over a beer on the configuration of the ground. Historically the lead content of fuels made the multi ground a good bet for the fouling issue of lead. The flame kernel issue/debate still exists.

If I fine-grind any large ground like the pic. . .the performance in ANY regard is the same initially.
Iridiums/platinum simply do it many times longer. I use an iridium/plat' in everything today for that reason (labor). The plat' in my truck was like your experience. I put it back in. :s_yes

The pic is a plug for my former Duc. Did the same for my 2t's long ago, which allowed for 100% foul-free
running. Spark juice loves a sharp edge, and grinding three edges over the positive post made for a nice spark. Many long overhanging grounds don't provide ANY sharp edge, so some help was good for anti fouling. The center post will get its own edge rounded, so this help works in concert.

A guy not wanting to spend big $$ on iridium or plat's could do this grind and do ok. 5,000 miles may require a ten second touch-up.

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:37 pm 
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SuperMoto Dude
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:15 pm
Posts: 474
Location: Los Angeles
Dinsdale wrote:
Not in any way wishing to be a smart-arse - genuine question:
Why do all piston engined aircraft engines use multi electrode plugs? I flew Dakotas (P&W R1830) for a few years and Caribous for quite a few years more (P&W R2000) but the question never arose. All other aircraft piston engines I've ever seen use multi-electrode plugs too.

Also, but unrelated: There are iridium plugs and there are platinum plugs. Is there any real-world difference?

My car still has its original platinum plugs at 193,000Km and they're doing just fine. I looked at them at about 125,000Km and they were so good I just put 'em back in.


P&W radial engines redline at 2500 rpm's and run magneto ignition systems. No need to state what happens after an aircraft ignition systems fails.

a set of plugs for a 6 cylinder Lycoming will set you back 1 bill. Certified aircraft plugs BIG difference over automotive plugs.

Just about every race team runs conventional plugs unless it says E3 on the side of the vehicle.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Adventure Rider
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 3:20 pm
Posts: 3200
Location: California
38 DKW wrote:
The "Iridiums" in my Honda Pilot have been in there for the last 110 000 kms without affecting performance negatively . --- My DR still runs with the OEM-plugs (at ~ 20 000 kms) . --- In both cases over-all-PERFORMANCE is still satisfactory . --- It baffles me that some citizen NEEDED to replace them already while they were actually "HALF-NEW" . --- Wrong carburetor-setting ??? :s_dunno

My DR650 ran good too with OEM standard plugs. I pulled them out at around 5K miles (8K km). I compared them to new versions of same OEM plug. Big difference. The electrode was visibly worn on old plugs. Bike still seemed to run fine, started good. But the old plugs were visibly WORN.

So at that point I decided to switch to Iridium over standard OEM plug. My Denso Iridiums still looked pretty good after 10K miles of hard use. YMMV. Also, Iridiums also gave a slight tick up in fuel economy, cold starting was better and I could achieve a nice low idle with less stumbling. But longevity is primary reason for the switch. Iridium plugs are more $$, IMO, worth it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:24 am 
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Single Tracker
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:05 pm
Posts: 267
Location: Albany, West Oz
LA Thumper wrote:
P&W radial engines redline at 2500 rpm's and run magneto ignition systems. No need to state what happens after an aircraft ignition systems fails.

R2000 - 2,650rpm/50"Hg boost at take off (to be insufferably pedantic) :s_laughat
Yes, I know, from experience, what happens when the fire goes out in an a/c engine - as luck would have it we found another one on the starboard wing :s_biggrin We also had 2 separate mags running 2 separate banks of spark plugs, and that didn't stop it dying either.) However, that doesn't explain the love affair with multi-electrode plugs in aviation. There's no other industry I can think of where reliability and consistency are more critical, to the extent that the last test we did before "lining up" was a rev drop test on the mags. Btw, magnetos don't offer anywhere near the high KV of modern electronic ignition systems.

Again, not trying to tell anyone they're wrong; just wondering why they do it.
I'll be sticking with iridium or platinum until there's a permanent solution.

LA Thumper wrote:
a set of plugs for a 6 cylinder Lycoming will set you back 1 bill. Certified aircraft plugs BIG difference over automotive plugs.

Assuming 1 bill is $US1,000; $US83 per plug - they'd want to be just about solid platinum :OMG:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:32 am 
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SuperMoto Dude
SuperMoto Dude

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:15 pm
Posts: 474
Location: Los Angeles
Dinsdale wrote:
LA Thumper wrote:
P&W radial engines redline at 2500 rpm's and run magneto ignition systems. No need to state what happens after an aircraft ignition systems fails.

R2000 - 2,650rpm/50"Hg boost at take off (to be insufferably pedantic) :s_laughat
Yes, I know, from experience, what happens when the fire goes out in an a/c engine - as luck would have it we found another one on the starboard wing :s_biggrin We also had 2 separate mags running 2 separate banks of spark plugs, and that didn't stop it dying either.) However, that doesn't explain the love affair with multi-electrode plugs in aviation. There's no other industry I can think of where reliability and consistency are more critical, to the extent that the last test we did before "lining up" was a rev drop test on the mags. Btw, magnetos don't offer anywhere near the high KV of modern electronic ignition systems.

Again, not trying to tell anyone they're wrong; just wondering why they do it.
I'll be sticking with iridium or platinum until there's a permanent solution.

LA Thumper wrote:
a set of plugs for a 6 cylinder Lycoming will set you back 1 bill. Certified aircraft plugs BIG difference over automotive plugs.

Assuming 1 bill is $US1,000; $US83 per plug - they'd want to be just about solid platinum :OMG:


I love radial engines they sound soo mellow compared to the incessant whine of a Lycoming :bad:

Image

I'm not the pilot, just the bloke in the back seat getting his ass kicked by both the driver and the plane.


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