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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:44 am 
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Adventure Rider
Adventure Rider
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Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:40 pm
Posts: 1249
Location: East-Westside, Washington
Rider weight 185lbs with full gear
Bike add-ons (big tank? always carry 70 lbs of gear?) Acerbis 5.3 gal, skid plate, many others, Approx total bike weight is 390lbs
Riding type (gnarly rocky single track? 100% on road? two track? etc) Commute, mostly forest roads and two track for fun, occasional single track
Riding background and ability (newbie? street rider transplant? ex supercross pro?) street, back woods hooligan, anything with wheels and an engine, mountain bikes

Forks Stock
Spring rate Eibach .47
Preload 8mm
Oil weight 5, height is 130mm
Damping (stock? emulators? intimators?) Cogent DDC
What did you try to get where you are at? various preloads
What would you do differently next time? Do this first, before pumper carb and exhaust

Shock Rebuilt Stock Shock with Cogent Shock Shaft Assembly
Spring rate 7.5
Sag ~2.5 inches
What did you try to get where you are at? every adjustment possible with stock shock
What would you do differently next time? nothing

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--nicholi

2013 DR650 34,651------->DR790 1,000 miles and counting


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:28 pm 
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Trail Rider
Trail Rider

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:44 am
Posts: 115
Location: Vermont
Location:
adam728 wrote:

Rider weight 160 (with Motoport quad-A gear on!)
Bike add-ons (big tank? always carry 70 lbs of gear?)Acerbis tank, GSXR muffler, skid plate. Set up for full camping travel = 50lbs gea/water etc?
Riding type (gnarly rocky single track? 100% on road? two track? etc?) typical dirt backroad/trails (CDR)/commuting
Riding background and ability (newbie? street rider transplant? ex supercross pro?) Long time dirt rider - no racing though.

Forks Stock (Dr350 forks in waiting)
Spring rate stock
Preload
Oil weight stock
Damping (stock? emulators? intimators?)
What did you try to get where you are at?
What would you do diffetently next time? install the adjustable 350 forks instead of work on the house?

Shock DRz400
Spring rate Eibach 375 lb
Oil weight stock
Damping (stock? emulators? intimators? shaft swap? etc) stock adjustability
Sag 2.9 static - 4.125 "race" with travel gear on bike
What did you try to get where you are at? just rode the stocker a while
What would you do differently next time?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:37 am 
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Single Tracker
Single Tracker
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Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:15 pm
Posts: 261
Location: Border of Oakville and Mississauga Ontario Ca.
I shined up the credit card and called Procycle.
Fork kit with progressive springs and shock kit with 7.5 spring.
Racetech has a menu to chose your valveing stack and I chose moderate. The forks are much better up to 30 mph but after that become harsh on compression on the street. Will readdress high speed valveing next winter when the stem bearing will get replaced.Brake dive is less but still there but I think it's a positive. Rear is fine.
I dropped the forks some and added lowering links as my 31" inseam left me teetering at stops and I don't push this bikes off road limits
DDC weren't released when I needed to up grade.
Rear is fine but any more than my 210lb frame the 8.5 is recommended.

Follow what Procycle has posted, you will be good to go :2_thumbsup:

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'05 Yella DR650
'06 Blue GSF1200


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:29 pm 
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Trail Rider
Trail Rider
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:20 am
Posts: 76
Location: south africa
Location: south africa
We added Cogent shocks and the DDC with the springs to the front of our bikes 6000km ago and to date we are really happy we went with the Cogent setup. Our intention is to use these bikes for 100000km plus to ride the USA, South America and where else they can carry us. Most importanly is that they are fixable anywhere in the world, tough and back up from the manufacturer. Cogent even offers a service kit for the shocks if going overlanding in other countries.
We have done some really cool tracks the last few weeks loaded and some like the White Rim trail in Moab halfloaded and the Cogent Suspension really performed well.

After spending money on a bike, our biggest expense are for suspension. It is also the only thing that keeping the tyres in contact with the dirt and asphalt. And the most expensive parts to ship and wait for when sh*t hits the fan when overlanding. We bled money in Africa with our BMW shocks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:54 pm 
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Newbie
Newbie
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:50 pm
Posts: 2
Location: near Philadelphia, PA, USA
Location: PA, USA
Rider weight: 145 lbs without gear
Bike add-ons (big tank? always carry 70 lbs of gear?) IMS 4.9 gal, skid plate, Barkbuster, top and side racks
Riding type (gnarly rocky single track? 100% on road? two track? etc) [b]A bit of everything

Riding background and ability (newbie? street rider transplant? ex supercross pro?) newbie to dirt, street rider transplant


Forks Stock
Spring rate Eibach .47
Preload whatever spacer came with the DDC kit
Oil weight 5, height is DDC kit recommended
Damping (stock? emulators? intimators?) Cogent DDC
What did you try to get where you are at? bottomed them out riding over rocks and almost being launched
What would you do differently next time? maybe use the stock springs

Shock: Rebuilt Stock Shock with Cogent Shock Shaft Assembly
Spring rate 7.5
Sag ~3.25 inches
What did you try to get where you are at? see above
What would you do differently next time? nothing

Still need to play with the adjustment on the rear shock to get it where I like it. The front is definitely sprung more than the back, so I might need to increase the rear preload to match. At 5'-5" and 145 lbs, I'm definitely not taxing the suspension much. Need to get rid of the quick bouncing up after landing too. (rear rebound??)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:31 pm 
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Newbie
Newbie
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Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:28 am
Posts: 11
Location: Northeast TN / Southern Appalachians
For the edification of suspension tuners... my experience on the DR650

I'm on my second DR650. The first one (an '01) was bought with 22K miles and sold still running great with 42K. The second one (a '99) had 11K when I bought it and now has 32K. Both were ridden as dual-sport / adventure bikes. Both as local day-ride bikes and on multi-week adventure tours (Trans-America Trail, Rocky Mtn Continental Divide, etc). Point is, the bikes have been utilized for what I believe they were intended. For reference I'm around 200lbs - probably close to 220 in gear and on the trips carry up to 70lbs of "luggage". I am a mature rider (69) and so I don't ride "aggressively" any more but I do have some experience having been riding for 57 years with a few Enduros under my belt. So when riding with less experienced riders, sometimes even the hot shots on orange bikes, I usually have to wait. OTOH, the younger guys with experience are usually waiting on me. I like a plush ride that absorbs the terrain and I like to maintain traction and forward motion rather than just kicking roost and lofting the front wheel. I think the suspension should do the work rather than me. That said, the purpose of this write up is to share my experience with DR650 suspension - See summary below.

The first DR had stock suspension when I bought it. Over time I replaced the shock with a full monty Cogent rebuilt shock and .76 kg/mm Ohlins spring and valving for my weight. That resulted in an awesome improvement in control but a somewhat harsher ride. A good trade off IMO. Also on that bike I reworked the forks with Ricor Intiminators and straight rate .50 kg/mm springs. Again a dramatic improvement over the stock front end. The Intiminators virtually eliminated brake dive and provided a much more supple ride over smaller irregularities of off-pavement riding. The straight rate springs made the front MUCH more stable as the OE progressive springs tended to bounce the front end up unpredictably on big hits making it hard to hold a line.

Okay, along comes a deal I can't pass up on the low mileage '99. It came to me with a Cogent rebuilt shock (.67 kg/mm Eibach spring) and valving for a 180-200lb rider. The bike also had Racetech Gold Valve emulators in the forks with drilled damper rods and the stock progressive wound springs. Loved the shock but hated the forks which provided great control but just beat my hands and shoulders to death. So before selling the '01 I removed and stored the Cogent shock and swapped the Intiminators and straight wind springs to the lower mileage '99 forks and called it good. Rode it happily that way for about 20K miles.

Flash forward... Cogent starts selling the DDC cartridge emulator with rave reviews on ADVRider. So, I had to try it. Got those installed in May with new .525 kg/mm springs and it was even better yet. Maybe a little firmer than the Intiminators but the control was just awesome. It simply goes where you point it now. Still great front fork action with very little brake dive but the biggest difference is the feeling of control particularly at higher speeds. They really are better for me. Although definitely a lesser spring rate than the front, for now I'm keeping the .67 rear setup but I have the .76 shock and spring on the shelf just in case. Might put it on before my next adventure trip with luggage.

In defense of the Ricor Intiminators, they are designed to provide a supple ride while eliminating brake dive - a great idea but the DDCs work better for off-road applications IMO. My wife and I have Intiminators in our street bikes (DL650 and SV650) and we are very happy with them there.

Summary
'01 DR650 stock suspension
Very soft but comfy and controllable at lower speeds - not so much at higher speeds.

'01 DR650 with
- Intiminators and .50 kg/mm straight wound fork springs, minus 3mm preload*, 165mm oil level* (5 wt)
- Cogent shock with .76 kg/mm spring
Vastly improved - a bit stiffer but more controllable at speed. Reduced brake dive, more supple fork action over minor ripple surfaces. Much less "kick up" on big hits. Handles added weight of luggage better.

'99 DR650 with
- Racetech Gold Valve emulators and OE progressive springs
- Cogent shock with .67 kg/mm spring
Love the rear, hated the forks because they were too harsh. The Racetech emulators are tunable but I did not attempt to alter the settings - maybe they could have been tuned better for me but I chose to replace them.

'99 DR650 with
- Intiminators and .50 kg/mm straight wound fork springs, minus 3mm preload, 165mm oil level (5 wt)
- Cogent shock with .67 kg/mm spring
Great solution but in retrospect the forks were a little more vague than I knew

'99 DR650 with
- DDCs and .525 straight springs, 10mm preload, 130mm oil level (5 wt)
- Cogent shock with .67 kg/mm spring
Very good but the forks were a little more harsh on big hits than I liked. Rick suggested less oil (more air cushion)

'99 DR650 with
- DDCs and .525 straight springs, 10mm preload, 150mm oil level (5 wt)
- Cogent shock with .67 kg/mm spring
Nice! The front spring rate is definitely higher than the rear but for now I'm leaving it. At some point I may put the .76 Cogent shock back on but for now I'm lovin' it.

Update: After some seat time, I dropped the oil level in the forks by another 15ml so the level is approximately 165mm as specified in the service manual. The extra air cushion is not dramatic but is noticeable. Been that way now for around 500 miles of mixed surface riding. Precise steering, supple but not sloppy wheel control. I LIKE it.

Yeah, it's been a trip. MUCH thanks to NCRick (Cogent Dynamics) for his patient help.

Definitions
* preload = the distance from the top of the extended fork to the top of the spacer - a minus value means the spacer extends ABOVE the fork tube. This is actually kind of an inverse way of looking at preload but it is the way the Cogent folks like to talk about it. The cap is 18mm deep so 10mm as measured by this technique means the spring is actually compressed 8mm when the cap is installed. The -3 value for the .50 springs means those springs were compressed 21mm.
* oil level = the distance from the top of the compressed fork without the spring or drop-in to the surface of the oil so a larger number means less oil and more air cushion.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:32 am 
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Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:24 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Los Angeles
Just got my dr back from the recommended suspension guy in town.
I'm 220 w/no gear. Bike is farkled acerbis 5gal, skid plate, side and top racks, bark busters etc

I plan on riding a few trips with 40-50lbs extra of gear.

Forks .55 springs. Race tech emulators. (Set for recommended stack). 15w oil (seemed odd to me but feels good so far)

Shock. .84 spring with gold valve rear.


Only have 100mi on it (on and off road) with new setup but is vastly better.

Smooth on road big bumps and road seams are all comfortable.
Off road is a big improvement. Bike feels more planted and less bouncy. Almost like I don't even notice the suspension now.

Time will tell but I'm happy so far.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:10 am 
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Adventure Rider
Adventure Rider
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:50 am
Posts: 794
Location: Michigan
Great stuff guys. Keeps it coming!

TN2Wheeler - love the comparisons. It means a lot when someone can get a lot seat time on one model with different setups. Like they say, the best you've ridden is the best you know. Guess that's why some say the DR has great stock suspension.

compute 42 - The emulators have no "stack". They are basically a check valve, just a disc and spring. They are tunable via spring rate, spring preload, and bleed hole size/number. Oil weight doesn't affect them much, a heavier oil pushes the plate open further. But it has a big affect on rebound, as the forks still rely on the stock drilled hole for rebound damping. Being a fixes orifice oil weight is all the tuning you get. And going with stiffer springs you typically need more rebound damping, as the springs try and extend the forks with more force than the flacid stock springs. Just fyi.

_________________
2013 DR 650
Mostly stock, for now....


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:57 am 
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Single Tracker
Single Tracker
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:06 am
Posts: 252
Location: SoCal
Rider weight - 240 without gear
Bike add-ons (big tank? always carry 70 lbs of gear?) - IMS tank, saddle bags and rack in near future
Riding type (gnarly rocky single track? 100% on road? two track? etc): 80-20. Novice rider so just cruising off road
Riding background and ability (newbie? street rider transplant? ex supercross pro?): Newbie

Forks: stock
Spring rate: .55
Preload: 2 5/8 spacer as per Jesse
Oil weight: 10w
Damping (stock? emulators? intimators?): Stock
What did you try to get where you are at?: Stock to this setup
What would you do diffetently next time?: Nothing. Not much time on this setup. So far, I really like it.

Shock: Stock
Spring rate: 8.4 with spring bearing insert
Oil weight: Stock
Damping (stock? emulators? intimators? shaft swap? etc) Stock
Sag: Have not measured, set to recommended preload as per Jesse's directions
What did you try to get where you are at? : Stock to this setup
What would you do differently next time?: Nothing. Not much time on this setup. So far, I really like it.

_________________
Kevin,
2015 DR650S
2016 KTM 1190 ADV S


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Adventure Rider
Adventure Rider
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Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:50 am
Posts: 794
Location: Michigan
Might as well respond to my own thread


Rider weight - 190 lbs
Bike add-ons - Skid, rear rack, sometimes maybe 5-7 lbs worth of gear
Riding type - Commuter (gravel & slab), dual sport rides, 50" ORV trail, MCCCT single track
Riding background and ability - Basically dirt background. Have done some street in the past, but mostly MX in high school, and a good amount of hare scramble racing thru my 20's. Made it up to A class, but haven't raced since 2009.

Forks
Spring rate - Stock
Preload - Stock + emulator thickness (34 mm total)
Oil weight - ~7.5W (ATF)
Oil height - 130 mm
Damping - Emulators, yellow spring, 2.5 turns preload, (1)3.0mm bleed hole
What did you try to get where you are at? Raised oil level, added 8 mm preload (30mm total). Changed to Emulators and Maxima 5W (didn't want to drill damper rods).
What would you do differently next time? - This is totally a temporary step. Want proper springs and DDC's. Goal was to ride 1 year before upgrades, but stock was so utterly soft I found it painful and exhausting off road. My main issue is the one I haven't really fixed yet, the soft spring rates and low speed damping in large, gentle G-outs. The bike falls thru the travel and bottoms hard. Repeat 1000 times on a ride and 100 miles feels like a 24 hr race.
Found Emulators used and jumped on them to help low speed damping at least a little bit. Forks still WAY too soft and wallowy.

Shock
Spring rate - Stock
Oil weight - Maxima 3W
Damping - Home re-valve, see stacks below
Sag - ~3.25" (spring set to 238 mm preloaded length, max recommended in manual)
What did you try to get where you are at? Just preload and clicker settings
What would you do differently next time? Again, temporary. Spring coming this winter, and probably some stack tweaking to go with it. Just wanted to up the valving for now to help get rid of some of the wallow (had oil and shims, so cost was just time).

Note - I bought this bike brand new this last winter, left over. Did suspension mods after 3500 miles. Shock had just over 90 psi in the bladder (later seen Rick post most are around 100 psi). Far cry from 175 psi recommended, great for cavitation. Was allowing the seal head to get sucked into the shock body and caused some wear/polishing on a part that should never move. Also, shock had a fairly large amount of air inside.

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2013 DR 650
Mostly stock, for now....


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